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So, vinyl... 
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Post So, vinyl...

I'm a bit bemused by the current vogue for both self- and label- releases to be quite so centred around analogue media at the moment. I mean, as someone who grew up with that, it's fairly undeniable that both tape and LP naturally degrade with use, regardless of how shit-hot your hi-fi setup might be. And, OK, as the cheapest of all cheap options, tape never really went away in the same way vinyl did, and I can absolutely get why that's still an appropriate format for releases that don't need a pin-sharp medium to put their (probably demo) point across. But, seriously, whilst I kind of welcome the "vinyl revival" on both nostalgic and ritualistic grounds - it's kind of nice to take the time out to listen to a release on full-fat hi-fi, and have full-size packaging to refer back to while you do - what's driving that amongst younger bands and labels, who grew up with CDs as the default - and supposedly indestructible - medium of choice, or the even later arrivistes who came into a fully digital/download world? I'd love to understand why it is you guys, whether as bands or labels, seem to be actively regressing to technologies that were considered flawed and obsolete 30-odd years ago. What do you look for from these analogue platforms, and why do you want them, would be my question. I already know why they appeal to my retro nature, but I'm seriously curious as to why that's also a thing for those without the "retro" (or "old", if you rprefer) background. Genuinely, all answers welcome...

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Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:05 pm
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Post Re: So, vinyl...

Following... :D

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Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:18 am
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Post Re: So, vinyl...

My dad never stopped collecting and playing vinyl so grew up with it, and started my own collection in early teens, so don't think I am a typical case and can't really answer.

Absurd Speculation: Well a lot of my unusual for my age and extremely interests whilst growing up are now very fashionable. Hipsters must just think I am the great trendsetter I guess. Scumbags.

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Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:43 pm
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Post Re: So, vinyl...

I bought a vinyl player some years ago... Got the mind contaminated by some geek talkings on the Internet... Now, I never touch it and the small colection I gathered is stocked in a cupboard I never open. I'm more and more limiting my purchases to digital files, what I couldn't bet a dime on when it all started, I mean I couldn't expect me to be able to renounce so easily to a solid, physical -dust-gathering- collection.

Now, a really good amplifier is still the piece of hifi I value the most, and I love listening to a real record, be it cd or vinyl on my vintage hifi system. But as I work home, I'm using the computer to browse through my music and the sound quality isn't the best, to say the least...!

That beaing said, I still buy some solid cds once in a while, but not for the added value of a booklet or of a good design, just to add an actual 'object' to my already substantial series of other objects, in a pure craving for materialistic profusion.

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Tue Sep 22, 2020 2:06 pm
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Post Re: So, vinyl...

I must say I hardly use my old Rega Planar 2 these days... and I'm buying more and more digital releases... sad, but true...

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Tue Sep 22, 2020 3:33 pm
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Post Re: So, vinyl...

Actually I have a feeling that people who grew up with vinyl have a harder time understanding the vinyl resurgence. As I understand it, while the technology was at its peak in the 70s it was mass produced, so the goal was to keep it affordable - both the actual records and most turntables. Similar to nowadays digital releases - the practical aspect usually takes over the hi-fi demands. So for а lot of people back then it was really a flawed medium - vinyl is both hard and expensive to do right, needs a lot of maintenance, and while the record production had obvious benefits back then (printing millions of a record means you can throw the first few thousand, people understood how to master vinyl better, etc) most people's turntables were usually scruffy at best=)

Nowadays, excluding the not-so-small portion of hype/hipster related target audience, people who listen to vinyl do to it solely for the purpose of audio quality. Therefore the market has shifted, putting the emphasis on quality. It's a rather expensive and time consuming hobby nowadays and much more care is applied to it. And since there are so many alternatives to listening to music, the records get less play-time, therefore the degradation is not so serious an issue.

Why underground bands focus on vinyl is something I've also wondered. It's way more expensive, usually in numbers below 500 where profit is probably non-existent and most of the music does not have any audio qualities to boast on vinyl. Maybe it's status - the fact that you released a vinyl, maybe it's an attempt to assume credibility as anti-mainstream. No idea. I'm still glad they do - I like listening to raw and noisy demos on vinyl a lot=)))

Personally, I grew up with tapes entirely, then had a short CD period, then digital only for a decade. Now I have two average hi-fi systems, both have good turntables, one has a CD player and still mostly listen on my small PC speakers. Nevertheless, vinyl provides the best experience for me, entirely subjective of course=)


Wed Sep 23, 2020 1:52 pm
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Post Re: So, vinyl...

klamerin wrote:
vinyl provides the best experience for me, entirely subjective of course=)


for me too... but I just can't be bothered now... BTW, musically I grew up in the '70s, with both tapes and LPs... I always hated tapes, for the lower quality and the fact they only lasted x amount of plays... on the other hand, I looked after my LPs almost fanatically... :D

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Wed Sep 23, 2020 3:30 pm
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Post Re: So, vinyl...

CDs are easier for me to store compared to LPs but I see myself picking up LPs more than often for soundtracks via Mondo.

From a label perspective, we get approached by bands to press LPs more than CDs or tapes, even for a demo. Their preferred format is a 7". I guess there's something definitive about it or allure ... as if it's a sign of legitimacy.

I personally love collecting physical media and part of it is because of the packaging. LP allows for a larger format of whatever it is that works for that release - art work, etc. CD is just the best for longevity and convenience. Tape is definitely more nostalgia driven cos it reminds me of my college years when I couldn't afford to buy CDs.

I don't know what makes the new generation flock to tapes or LPs ... most of it stems from fomo I reckon.


Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:23 am
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Post Re: So, vinyl...

Vinyl is a novelty at best for me. I own a few vinyl records but only because I couldn't get what I was looking for on CD or tape. Tapes are cool but CDs are king. Why so many people have a seemingly vitriolic hatred for CDs is beyond me. I've had many conversations about this over the years and it still baffles me. Like was stated in the first post, vinyl is temporary. You only get so many plays before it goes from stereo to mono and then before the needle rips through the vinyl. The fact that they cost pennies to make yet retail for $40-$50+ is insane. I remember in the late 90's and early 00's they were selling them (locally) for pennies. I found original pressings of some NWOBHM for nothing, used, but new releases were on par or less than with CDs.

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Fri Oct 09, 2020 3:10 am
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Post Re: So, vinyl...

Basically I started listening to music in the 90s when CDs were still coming and nobody dared talk about vinyl anymore. Then, sometime 20 (?) years ago, the vinyl hipster boom came.

I started to love this format in the last few years. Not because of the hipster stuff, that's something so outside my world. My point was simple: I developed a real hatred of all the CD's that were piled up and littered my apartment because I used to write reviews for some zines earlier. I thought all the vinyl stuff was hipster stuff, but when I got the first one in my hands and it rotated in the player it was total love. Spent a lot of money since then. But for me it is worth it because i deal with the entire work, more than on CD and way more than on any digital formats. I'd never pay for digital formats.


Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:12 am
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Post Re: So, vinyl...

I like vinyl actually from the vinyl era...60s, 70s, 80s stuff. I don't buy any new vinyl at all, mainly because of price points. I have about 240 LPs, but I rarely pick one out and play it. Usually when I get a new title I'll play it a couple times then file it.

CD is my preferred format. Although, honestly, I do the same thing with those. I get one, play it a couple times, rip it to 320 for the iPod, then filed and onto the next one.

I do get frustrated with some newer bands releasing only vinyl along with a digital download. But, in those cases, I'll get the download if I love it and really want to support them. Otherwise, those are random, at-work, Spotify listens.


Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:32 pm
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Post Re: So, vinyl...

I have a few vinyl, and although the ritualistic aspect of it is nice, I don't get the resurgence at all. I have students that buy some vinyl, but nothing else and they listen to 99.9% of their music on Spotify anyways. Plus the price point is often quite expensive, there's less bass, 4 vinyls is often excessive but needed for longer albums, most people have shite turntable anyways. It's darn impractical when you move too. So yeah.... CD is still my favorite format and it's more practical, has a better noise floor, etc.


Thu May 06, 2021 2:48 pm
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Post Re: So, vinyl...

maladie wrote:
I have a few vinyl, and although the ritualistic aspect of it is nice, I don't get the resurgence at all. I have students that buy some vinyl, but nothing else and they listen to 99.9% of their music on Spotify anyways. Plus the price point is often quite expensive, there's less bass, 4 vinyls is often excessive but needed for longer albums, most people have shite turntable anyways. It's darn impractical when you move too. So yeah.... CD is still my favorite format and it's more practical, has a better noise floor, etc.


I find weird that you say there is less bass.. I grew up with vinyl (being old :p ) and I find vinyls have a lot more bass. But you do need proper equipment to extract the best.

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Thu May 06, 2021 3:43 pm
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Post Re: So, vinyl...

Merchant of Doom wrote:
maladie wrote:
I have a few vinyl, and although the ritualistic aspect of it is nice, I don't get the resurgence at all. I have students that buy some vinyl, but nothing else and they listen to 99.9% of their music on Spotify anyways. Plus the price point is often quite expensive, there's less bass, 4 vinyls is often excessive but needed for longer albums, most people have shite turntable anyways. It's darn impractical when you move too. So yeah.... CD is still my favorite format and it's more practical, has a better noise floor, etc.


I find weird that you say there is less bass.. I grew up with vinyl (being old :p ) and I find vinyls have a lot more bass. But you do need proper equipment to extract the best.


Because of the grooves you can't have as much bass in a mix on vinyl, it's a technical aspect of the analogue medium. That said, a lot of equipment also overcompensated for it :)


Thu May 06, 2021 6:08 pm
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Post Re: So, vinyl...

Actually, all the bass is cut and treble boosted before it is pressed, then the opposite is applied in the amplification stage - this is why you can't just plug a turntable into any input on an amplifier, it needs to go through a channel designed for this. See RIAA equalization.

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Thu May 06, 2021 7:46 pm
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Post Re: So, vinyl...

kris wrote:
Actually, all the bass is cut and treble boosted before it is pressed, then the opposite is applied in the amplification stage - this is why you can't just plug a turntable into any input on an amplifier, it needs to go through a channel designed for this. See RIAA equalization.


yes, that's why it's important to get an amplifier with a proper phono stage... or am I wrong? :)

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Fri May 07, 2021 8:01 am
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Post Re: So, vinyl...

Yeah phono stage, that's what I meant. Name eluded me. I have a standalone one before my amp because it doesn't have a built in one.

Also relevant - the louder the audio is on average the worse quality it will be. This is a physical limitation, the amplitude of the signal is the depth that is cut into the vinyl and means the needle travels further and loses fidelity. Also, on a stereo record the groove is like a V with each arm of the V being one channel and stuff with very wide stereo, especially in the bass frequencies can get blurry. This is why stuff that has been mastered for CD often sounds like trash if not remastered correctly for vinyl taking the limitations in mind. I know my mastering engineer different processing he uses on the mixes when mastering for both formats - the vinyl version will not have as wide stereo, and will not have as heavy compression so that it is quieter.

Even the position of the track on the vinyl disc can make a difference! The loss of quality due to loudness is much more pronounced towards the centre, because there is much less actual physical space per rotation to fit the audio in! Bands, labels and engineers in the 50's-80's knew this and put a ballad or other quieter song as tracks 4 and 8 out of 8 on the album. Go back and look at old records, this will be the case in a large percentage of cases. This seems to be something that people putting stuff out on vinyl don't take into account. People still write and arrange albums as if they were only going onto CD then wonder why vinyl, which they heard was better sounding, doesn't sound as good.

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Fri May 07, 2021 5:14 pm
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Post Re: So, vinyl...

kris wrote:
Yeah phono stage, that's what I meant. Name eluded me. I have a standalone one before my amp because it doesn't have a built in one.

The loss of quality due to loudness is much more pronounced towards the centre, because there is much less actual physical space per rotation to fit the audio in! Bands, labels and engineers in the 50's-80's knew this and put a ballad or other quieter song as tracks 4 and 8 out of 8 on the album. Go back and look at old records, this will be the case in a large percentage of cases. This seems to be something that people putting stuff out on vinyl don't take into account. People still write and arrange albums as if they were only going onto CD then wonder why vinyl, which they heard was better sounding, doesn't sound as good.


Cheers for that... my old Harman Kardon amplifier did have a phono stage, but I had to buy an external one when it gave up the ghosts (one channel went wrong, admittedly after 20 years) and I replaced it with a Cyrus, forgetting to check whether it had the phono stage or not!

I always noticed how the last track on LPs sounded crap... I found it infuriating... :p

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Sat May 08, 2021 8:52 am
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Post Re: So, vinyl...

Had some chats with label bosses lately and they confirm they cant't do (funeral) doom Vinyls, because it's a losing business. The funeral of funeral doom, funny. I think thats where I have to stop to support bands, going with internet only, everything for free


Wed May 26, 2021 12:06 am
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