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The US elections topic 

Obama or McCain
Obama! 45%  45%  [ 13 ]
McCain 17%  17%  [ 5 ]
Both are equally evil 34%  34%  [ 10 ]
Both are equally good 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 29

The US elections topic 
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US elections seem to be dominating the media (even here in the Netherlands). Just curious what people think about it. Especially the US people here. Obama or McCain (and why?) or neither?

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Last edited by Abhorsen on Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:29 pm
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I don't know what the news is like in the Netherlands but, here in the States, the media coverage seems to focus on a lot of inane shit instead of anything of interest or value.

I'm voting for neither because, well, I don't vote.

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also, obama hates jews and blacks.


Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:45 pm
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i will probably write in tom servo from MST3K, or ron paul. i may vote for bob barr, but i don't know if i trust him, he has a wack voting record. america is being led to a big fucking fall with promises of "change". barack obama's running mate, joe biden, is a senator of 40 years and has been an asshole creating problems, accepting lobbyist money, writing special interest bills that benefit corporations and subsidize harmful things. also, he has been writing unconstitutional bills and stealing freedom; he has been doing all of this during his entire 40-year career with the senate, and he is the second in hand to envoke "CHANGE"?!!? that is fucking ludicrous! people cannot even see how badly they are being fooled when it is so obvious!

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Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:14 am
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that didn't come out the way i wanted it too cause i am pretty baked. you get the point.

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Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:16 am
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All this talk of FREEDOM and CHANGE, it's all bullshit. I think all politicians are just as bad really, in the UK we voted for the labour party but what we got was the new fascist party. It just seems to me that politicians (especially US politicians) are the spokesmen for multinational corporations and central banks, they are the true terrorists, they are the enemies of freedom.
Maybe slightly off topic there but I'm just enjoying the novelty of agreeing with Perennialsorrow for a change :p
@Samsquanch: I agree, such inane shit, where's the beef?, what do these people actually stand for apart from making a lot of money for people who already have all the money? I'm reminded of something Bill Hicks wrote, are these people the best the US has to offer in terms of leadership or are they just the best for maximizing profits for themselves and greedy multinational corporations?


Fri Sep 05, 2008 2:27 pm
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Well, I guess Obama will win the election... though if I was in the U.S. I'd vote for McCain as the lesser evil. Rather a moderate republican than a big questionmark behind Carter-ish rhetoric (e.g. a guy that believes in change too much... yeah, I'd like a change to a sorte of post-liberal cosmopolitan order too, but it's not a thing that could be just done by a change in one (U.S.) government). Though if it was only about the "race", then full support to Obama - just for the precedent as identity shouldn't be an obstacle to better argument. I'm however not sure, if there are any good arguments left...

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Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:01 am
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obama's camp and the democratic party has made it a race issue while denying that there is a race issue. fuck obama. fuck mccain. mccain, nixon, and other early neocons are the reason that the libertarian party was formed. it was heavily due to wage and price controls. true american free-marketeers left the republican party, betrayed by the republican party, which was quickly losing it's way and is now exactly identical to the democratic party, but in a villanous guise (they lie, whereas democrats are very out in the open about being assholes).

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Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:41 am
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I'm tired of everyone trying to sell the Libertarian Party as the end all be all answer to political questions. Libertarianism (like a lot of other political platforms) has people who are retarded, full of shit, or both.

Case in point, Libertarians for Life is an organization full of doublethink.

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perennialsorrow wrote:
also, obama hates jews and blacks.


Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:03 pm
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Well, libertarians are even worse rabble of dicks than neo-cons. Though my understanding of McCain is that he's not completely flusheded in the neo-con toilet (perhaps too fat...). Americans could be kinda glad to have such a candidate instead of 18th-century capitalist morons like Ron Paul.

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Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:38 am
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wanna make a point instead of just insulting libertarianism and libertarians?

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Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:44 am
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perennialsorrow wrote:
wanna make a point instead of just insulting libertarianism and libertarians?

Yes.
I will start with a simple question - where can I get this free market? How can we be sure such a thing exists if we can't observe it, touch it, smell it or lick it?

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Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:29 am
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http://www.herobuilders.com/08.htm

Has it really come to this?


Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:49 pm
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Where is the Sarah Palin action figure where she is a relevant political figure? They don't have one? Damn.

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perennialsorrow wrote:
also, obama hates jews and blacks.


Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:12 pm
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SAMSQUANCH wrote:
Where is the Sarah Palin action figure where she is a relevant political figure? They don't have one? Damn.


I want one that comes with a freshly shot moose action figure and a pull-cord thing that makes her say "I believe in the sanctity of life", oh and eagle eyes like the old action-man used to have.


Thu Sep 11, 2008 3:34 pm
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SAMSQUANCH wrote:
Where is the Sarah Palin action figure where she is a relevant political figure? They don't have one? Damn.


I do believe they have one now. All in all Sarah Palin for me (and nothing personal to any Americans) is the prime example the majority of US people are... dumb! She's about the most anti-woman politician ever yet every woman wants to vote on her for the fact she simply doesn't have a dick. They would rather vote on somebody who is quite simply put bonkers and not quite ticking right in the head who wants to take away most female rights because she's female then somebody who may be better for women but happens to be a man.

Not getting into who is better Barrack or McCain. But Palin is just a publicity stunt and US women seem to be falling for it. She's anti-abortion, she actually apparently made women who where raped pay for their own examination, she thinks god not only wanted the US to invade Iraq but God also wants a pipeline for oil. Yes really, God is seriously busy with things like pipelines. The woman is bonkers!

As a UK comedian recently said Palin does not believe the climate change is man-made. Even Bush now thinks the climate change is man-made. The fact that Bush is more informed and progressive then you is not a good sign. (only then funnier).

Ohwell.. McCain will die in office and then we'll all wish for those good old years with 'sane Bush who made the right decisions'. And that's a scary thought! Hell I saw an interview that Palin was even hinting at war with Russia.. Not even in the cold war where US politicians that insane! (no love for Russia, but uhm.. I have this thing against Nuclear Winters... their not me).

Okay done ranting.. respect to all US people who do vote (or don't vote) with their head however. I know it may not have sounded like it, but I know there are shitloads of you around aswell.. We just get the news about the crazy folk here.

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Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:33 pm
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I think Palin and Ann Coulter should run together under "we're crazy but losers think we're hot" party. They'd win with 243% of the vote.

I wouldn't count out the female vote as purely McCain just yet. Sure, the polls look bad because people are still riding the hype. Once that dies off we'll see how many women will really jump political ship for a woman first mate. I'm betting most Democratic women aren't fooled by all this.

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perennialsorrow wrote:
also, obama hates jews and blacks.


Sat Sep 13, 2008 2:17 am
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I will be voting for McCain/Palin. Obama is a huge socialist and will bankrupt this country and raise our taxes. At least McCain /Palin will hopefully make everyone realize that the US needs to become energy independant. The US has 4 times the oil reserves from oil, oil shale and natural gas of all the worlds countries combined. How crazy that we don't get our own supply. The democrats have always been against this. We also need to get rid of ethanol. Why fill our tanks with corn produced ethanol. There is a limited supply which only raises food prices. Didn't anyone think of this?


Sun Sep 14, 2008 6:35 am
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a free market never has existed. a free market means that government cannot exist at all, because the existence of any government will affect different facets of the market.

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Mon Sep 15, 2008 7:39 am
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also, plenty of people realize the utter waste and environmental harm caused by ethanol, but corporate interest had the federal government passing bills to require its use before people could properly examine how unsustainable it really is. it is fucked up, but that is what happens in a corporatist society with heavy government interference in the market.

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Mon Sep 15, 2008 7:44 am
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perennialsorrow wrote:
a free market never has existed. a free market means that government cannot exist at all, because the existence of any government will affect different facets of the market.

Humm... I understand where are you heading to (e.g. we can't really be anarchists, so we should be at least libertarian then), but at least from what I see as the trouble about that is - even if we'd go to the very foundational writings of Adam Smith - first, if there is (as close as possible to) the free market, you've got to maintain the conditions - e.g. that there is an always-equal diffusion of information among the units. Second, you have to manage that attempts at cheating will be ideally prevented, or at least punished in appropriate way. So I understand that probably this would be what would you expect from the government an economic institutions, right?
To criticize this point of view, it would be for a longer debate, but let me conclude that I'm perfectly sure that even an ideal market can't be strong enough to force all the units to behave by its rules, nor to encourage them for competition. And second, I'm sure that no market can really fix all its non-economical impacts, despite these are probably not as catastrophic as some people (especially the anti-global-warming activists) admit.

Perhaps you should take a look into Karl Polanyi's "The Great Transformation" or for something a bit lighter and more essayist Robert Reich and his "Supercapitalism: The Transformation of Business, Democracy, and Everyday Life"

Not sure if this is enough to support my opinion that market libertarianism itself is probably the biggest thorn in the eye of a political ideologies observer, but take this as a try for the introduction to the argument...

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Mon Sep 15, 2008 7:56 pm
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