Aesthetic Death
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also, whatever evil forces drive tobacco and alcohol are much stronger than those that drive anything else. shit.

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Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:20 am
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Kastrophee wrote:
thx1138 wrote:
Kastrophee wrote:
Old thread, but....

perennialsorrow wrote:
don't get me wrong, there are drugs that cannot really be done responsibly (meth, heroin, etc.)


I have known a few people that use heroin responsibly, sure it isn't common, but it does happen. (As for meth, I never heard such things, but they might be some out there.


Heroin turns you into a dribbling (and very annoying) scumbag, I've watched it happen to a few people I've known over the years. A few of them claimed to be using it responsibly and some of those are dead now.


Alcoholics can also be scum bags, but not everyone who drinks alcohol is an alcoholic the same way not everyone who uses heroin is addicted. Granted, opiates are much easier to get addicted to, but addiction is not guaranteed no matter what any government says.


Sorry, alcoholics are scumbags too, there is no 'can also be' about it. Granted not everyone that drinks alcohol is an alcoholic and not everyone that has taken drugs is a drug addict. Fuck what governments say, anyone that takes heroin is not to be trusted, never ever trust a junkie, ex-junkie or anyone that smokes/injects/snorts smack, crack or meth. I've watched people go from "responsibly using herion" to skinny sacks of shit that aren't worth anything anymore. Anyone that says they can "responsibly" and "safely" use heroin I laugh in their faces, won't be long until they are selling their arses for a fix. Anyone that uses heroin, "safely" or otherwise, is not someone you want to hang around with. Heroin leads to one thing: human misery (those taking it and those that care about those taking it). I lived and worked around these people, I say to you (without malice) that you don't know what you are talking about. Hard drugs are shit, they will destroy you.
And yes, I realize opiates are used in medicine but that's hardly the same.


Sat Jan 24, 2009 5:59 pm
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perennialsorrow wrote:
i think that some people can handle addiction because of the way the drug acts through them so that observers feel less threatened by what is true evil. i honestly think that some drugs have evil demons and forces driving them to ensure that the mind that is not constantly discerning is effectively poisoned and the body is effectively destroyed. the very ideas that "some people can shoot up heroin once and be fine" or that "only people with addictive personalities become addicted" or others like that may exist solely so that people will grow to believe them and give in, because they are better than every other person whose life has been fucked over by that shit. it is a big fucking lie.


You are missing my point, I am saying its possible to use hard drugs more then once and plan on them using them again without getting psychically addicted. All it takes is strong will during the comedown (Which is different then withdrawals) and not using it again anytime soon.

thx1138 wrote:
Kastrophee wrote:
thx1138 wrote:
Kastrophee wrote:
Old thread, but....

perennialsorrow wrote:
don't get me wrong, there are drugs that cannot really be done responsibly (meth, heroin, etc.)


I have known a few people that use heroin responsibly, sure it isn't common, but it does happen. (As for meth, I never heard such things, but they might be some out there.


Heroin turns you into a dribbling (and very annoying) scumbag, I've watched it happen to a few people I've known over the years. A few of them claimed to be using it responsibly and some of those are dead now.


Alcoholics can also be scum bags, but not everyone who drinks alcohol is an alcoholic the same way not everyone who uses heroin is addicted. Granted, opiates are much easier to get addicted to, but addiction is not guaranteed no matter what any government says.


Sorry, alcoholics are scumbags too, there is no 'can also be' about it. Granted not everyone that drinks alcohol is an alcoholic and not everyone that has taken drugs is a drug addict. Fuck what governments say, anyone that takes heroin is not to be trusted, never ever trust a junkie, ex-junkie or anyone that smokes/injects/snorts smack, crack or meth. I've watched people go from "responsibly using herion" to skinny sacks of shit that aren't worth anything anymore. Anyone that says they can "responsibly" and "safely" use heroin I laugh in their faces, won't be long until they are selling their arses for a fix. Anyone that uses heroin, "safely" or otherwise, is not someone you want to hang around with. Heroin leads to one thing: human misery (those taking it and those that care about those taking it). I lived and worked around these people, I say to you (without malice) that you don't know what you are talking about. Hard drugs are shit, they will destroy you.
And yes, I realize opiates are used in medicine but that's hardly the same.


The type of people who you seem to be referring to are utter failures, but not everyone who uses hard drugs will become one. It feels like your are arguing a unshakable belief rather then anything substantial.

Anyways, heroin, coke, and meth are all different drugs and thus should be treated differently.


Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:26 pm
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All it takes is a strong will during the comedown? What are you talking about? These things get a hold on you, the more you do it, the more you want to do it, the more you start to need to do it. Then you build up a tolerance and you need more, more, more. It never feels as good as the first time.


Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:04 pm
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A comedown and a withdrawal are two different things, as a hangover is not a withdrawal, didn't I already make that clear? Once you are addicted it is a different matter, but as long as you don't take more during the day after shit feeling you don't run much if any risk of becoming addicted. Addiction only develops with repeated and constant uses. (Doing it once a month will probably not get you addicted, but can still be a bad habit, while doing it once a day will definitely screw you over)


Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:25 pm
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a hangover doesn't just happen because of dehydration, it also happens because your body is experiencing physical withdrawals from alcohol. that is why a hair from the hound that bit you is useful for a hangover. weed is more useful for a hangover, though.

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Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:08 am
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Kastrophee wrote:
A comedown and a withdrawal are two different things, as a hangover is not a withdrawal, didn't I already make that clear? Once you are addicted it is a different matter, but as long as you don't take more during the day after shit feeling you don't run much if any risk of becoming addicted. Addiction only develops with repeated and constant uses. (Doing it once a month will probably not get you addicted, but can still be a bad habit, while doing it once a day will definitely screw you over)


Yeah, heroin can be used as part of a healthy and balanced lifestyle :lol: . Sometimes I find your posts here interesting, others (like this one) just show how far you are prepared to bury your head in your arse.


Last edited by thx1138 on Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sun Jan 25, 2009 3:11 pm
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thx1138 wrote:
All it takes is a strong will during the comedown? What are you talking about? These things get a hold on you, the more you do it, the more you want to do it, the more you start to need to do it. Then you build up a tolerance and you need more, more, more. It never feels as good as the first time.

Right


Sun Jan 25, 2009 3:17 pm
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thx1138 wrote:
Kastrophee wrote:
A comedown and a withdrawal are two different things, as a hangover is not a withdrawal, didn't I already make that clear? Once you are addicted it is a different matter, but as long as you don't take more during the day after shit feeling you don't run much if any risk of becoming addicted. Addiction only develops with repeated and constant uses. (Doing it once a month will probably not get you addicted, but can still be a bad habit, while doing it once a day will definitely screw you over)


Yeah, heroin can be used as part of a healthy and balanced lifestyle :lol: . Sometimes I find your posts here interesting, others (like this one) just show how far you are prepared to bury your head in your arse.


I share the same sentiment, I never said heroin is healthy, I am however saying improper facts only leads to prohibition which ultimately fails and ruins many more lives then irresponsible drug use ever will.
Making a blanket statement that all hard drug users (Past and present) are scum bags is like saying all black metallers are elitists.
If someone wants to use heroin I will not judge them prematurely, it seems you are willing to judge them completely on their drug use without even knowing their name.


Sun Jan 25, 2009 8:31 pm
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i listen to black metal and i am elitist about it.

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Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:22 am
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Kastrophee wrote:
thx1138 wrote:
Kastrophee wrote:
A comedown and a withdrawal are two different things, as a hangover is not a withdrawal, didn't I already make that clear? Once you are addicted it is a different matter, but as long as you don't take more during the day after shit feeling you don't run much if any risk of becoming addicted. Addiction only develops with repeated and constant uses. (Doing it once a month will probably not get you addicted, but can still be a bad habit, while doing it once a day will definitely screw you over)


Yeah, heroin can be used as part of a healthy and balanced lifestyle :lol: . Sometimes I find your posts here interesting, others (like this one) just show how far you are prepared to bury your head in your arse.


I share the same sentiment, I never said heroin is healthy, I am however saying improper facts only leads to prohibition which ultimately fails and ruins many more lives then irresponsible drug use ever will.
Making a blanket statement that all hard drug users (Past and present) are scum bags is like saying all black metallers are elitists.
If someone wants to use heroin I will not judge them prematurely, it seems you are willing to judge them completely on their drug use without even knowing their name.


Improper facts? How many people have you known that have got themselves mixed up in hard drugs? How many people do you know that have died because of them? I'm betting none at all. Trust me, people that use crack, heroin, meth etc.... are not people you want to associate with. Ever had close friends rob you so they can pawn your stuff to get crack? It's not good. "Oh but I only use smack every now and again", they all say that to begin with. Now, the ones that aren't dead or in prison, que up for their methadone and wonder why no one gives a fuck about them anymore.
I'm all for personal freedom, I smoke weed and have taken plenty of other drugs too but you have to draw the line somewhere. And if someone beats their hard drug habit then fair play to them, I'd still speak to them, maybe even hang around with them but I'd never lend them anything or allow them to enter my house as you can never fully trust them once 'the line' has been crossed.

And for the record, I'm also elitist about black metal. (WARNING: incoming ridiculous statement:) If you aren't elitist about it then maybe you should listen to Winger instead? :p


Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:49 pm
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Despite your assumptions, I have known people who have been mixed up in hard drugs, true I never socialized with them, but I wouldn't have either way. No matter how many people screw up their lives there will always be people that don't and vica versa.

As this is going no where and I am not particularly enjoying this discussion (Don't ask me why I got involved in the first place) I will step out. I agree that there are a lot of scum who are addicted to heroin, but I disagree with you saying that the drug is at fault, I think it is how you use the drug that is to blame for any problematic situations. Most everyone today who is willing to try hard drugs knows the risks to some extent, those that blindly ignore them are to blame for their own failings.


Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:25 pm
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It goes both ways, so just agree to disagree on which happens the most. In either case, there is no way to know what is going on with every single druggie on this planet...


Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:07 pm
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Hmm..I hope I'm not in thx1138's situation in years to come. But I can see it unfortunately happening. Fucking pissess me off. I always feel like I want to give them the benefit of the doubt, but they're not the same anymore and they'll drag you down if you let them. Of course trust is completely gone. Eugh!

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Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:37 pm
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I have a friend who was going through the same thing with quite a few druggie friends, she's now one of the many people out there who holds a bitter disgust for the people who have fallen too far down that hole to get back up. When we first met she told me of this show called Intervention where hardcore drug addicts would be forced to confront the problems that he/she is causing on his/her family and friends, at the end they have to chose whether to go through with the intervention and make something better of themselves or simply run away from it all, again. From her experience and from some of the things I've seen on that show, I can understand why friends or family hold a grudge for these things if they knew someone close who is or was going through that.
These friends and families try really hard to support the person but the "victim" would do nothing but use them for money, sometimes even steal many things from their own family, and go through the day just hoping that compassion and sorrow will work in their favor, or at least their drug dealer's favor. These are the same people who claim to love their family and friends more than anything which makes the feeling even worse I would assume...taking this and many other things in mind, I can understand where both sides came to stand on the views that's been shaped for them...though, I think they have to realize (if they don't already) is that there is no right or wrong in this, only similar experiences shaped through the way that works best or easiest in their individual minds. So, arguing on it would end up the same as it started, subjective and on two separate paths.
But anyway, I've typed too much for this by now...


Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:10 am
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