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Marrige, what is the point? 
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Post Marrige, what is the point?

I have a steady relation with my girlfriend. We have together for over 6 years now, we have no marriage plans. Or any plans to have children. Now I am wondering what makes people decide to have children or to get married.
About 4 months ago I had a vasectomy to make sure I will never have children. It was not a hard decision after lots of morning after pills and 2 abortions I got it done.

I don't think my girlfriend and me will ever get married, we just don't see the point of getting married, it is expensive as hell and serves no real purpose.

So what do you think about marriage and having children.

Just for the record, my girlfriend is 29 and I'm 32.

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Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:57 pm
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Well, many would argue that marriage represents a firm committment to each other. Its purpose is to give legal and constitutional protection to couples. If you don't live in a region with common law marriage then you have no protection unless you walk down the aisle. The married unit is seen as the basis of society in many places. I've often said to people who say that marriage is nothing more than a piece of paper, then why not just get the piece of paper? I often think that people who say it's meaningless and pointless really don't believe so.

I'm myself would want a marriage. If you don't think it will work for you then there's not reason to get married.

As regards children, who knows why people decide to have them. I want them someday but I've no idea why. Guess you either do or don't.


Wed Dec 19, 2007 3:24 am
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I'm with Mordante here. I see no point in getting married, and a child would be the worst nightmare I can possibly imagine. Actually, I'm living with the constant fear of my girlfriend conceiving accidentally someday, so I'm thinking about a vasectomy as well. Would you care to tell me something about it (via PM, if you prefer), Mordante? That is, if it went well, in how far it's painful etc. - the decision itself won't be hard for me either, it's just that I'm rather afraid of surgery... :/

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Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:03 am
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Dunno, I think it would mostly depend on the lady here. :p No plans of a vasectomy here at the moment... I won't mind to get married, especially since it gives a few legal benefits. And I still have a lot of time to decide for children.

Oh yeah, a friend of mine once told me he won't ever get married. In three months after that, he lived together with a new girlfriend of his and in less than a year they got married... Yeah, it's a never say never thing most probably.

Damn, this post is so untr00, I guess I should reconsider my future membership around. :laugh:

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Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:16 am
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My experience with getting a vasectomy. Well the surgery is the easy part. Just make sure is all shaved and clean :p
The bite is in the 2 or 3 weeks after. I spend a lot of that time sitting and wearing tight underwear. Let me repeat that TIGHT underwear. That helps to keep everything in its place. The first showers I took I was sitting on some small garden chair. Later I had the bright idea to wear some swimming trunk. It all boils down to: surgery is easy, weeks after don’t do any heavy lifting. and keep it all tight.
After a while everything is back to normal, sex is just as good as before.

And remeber it is surgery even though you don't have any big scars or other visual effects give your body some rest to heal itself. Don't go on an all out bender for a couple of days.

Ps this is MY experience I’m not a PhD of any sort.

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Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:41 am
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If you believe in God (and I'm using the word "God" as a reference to the Christian God, of course), then getting married is supposed to be a fundamental step in your life.

If you don't, then the only reason to get married would be to get the legal benefits. Be it a religious or civil marriage, here in Italy seems like either you get married or you're considered some kind of pariah or stuff like that. You could have been living with your partner for 50 years and you're still considered less than a just-married couple.

Me and my girlfriend are planning to go and live together as soon as it is possible, but we have no interest in any kind of marriage whatsoever. We'll have a house of our own, a life of our own and the promises we made to each other, and that's all that counts for us. The symbolic value of marriage can easily be replaced by something that we value more - be it words of love, a ring or a unique account at the local bank for both of us :D

As for children... we'll probably have problems maintaining ourselves for the first few years, let alone maintain a whole family. Moreover, we both agree we would both be terrible parents :D

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Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:02 pm
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I really don't believe in marriage, but who knows what the future will bring. My parents' divorce had and still has a very deep impact on my life, despite the fact that they are still best friends and business partners, it made me even slightly neurotic about commitment. I don't judge people who want to get married, I think it's actually quite remarkable, but I just don't see myself doing that, as I'm too frightened of failure. I simply adore being inlove and sharing my life with someone special, but I still have lot of growing up to do before I ever get in a relationship so serious that makes me consider marriage.
What disgusts me the most is meeting people, usually women, who see in marriage the ultimate goal in their lives and the whole church ceremony thing. Especially the latter I find quite revolting, sexist and hypocritical.

But I still hope I'll find a prince charming, I definitely want to be a mother in the future, but I don't necessarily want to be someone's wife.

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Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:28 pm
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AnneGwish wrote:
What disgusts me the most is meeting people, usually women, who see in marriage the ultimate goal in their lives and the whole church ceremony thing. Especially the latter I find quite revolting, sexist and hypocritical.

What do you mean?


Sat Dec 22, 2007 12:29 am
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Silverdrone wrote:
AnneGwish wrote:
What disgusts me the most is meeting people, usually women, who see in marriage the ultimate goal in their lives and the whole church ceremony thing. Especially the latter I find quite revolting, sexist and hypocritical.

What do you mean?

She means the simple heritage from the approx. 18th century, when the only reason of women's social behavior was to find a man, to get married and give kids to. The ideal of a direct link between reproduction and sexuality was floating all around then, simply because of the analogy with economical productivity [e.g. holding that no other sexuality is healthy except of that, which is "productive", and that non-productive one is a waste of enrgy] (hopefully I don't have to mention it were the times of the industrial revolution, and a new way of "knowledge", a new economy of social relations, etc, where direct knowledge started to become replaced with the indirect one in order to maintain authority, order, etc...).Thus, sexuality was a thing to be under strong social control. To draw back to the relation from a different perspective, women are able to get married and become mothers, but noone should have the right to oblige them to do so. However, there are ones that think within the former logic, not the latter.

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Sat Dec 22, 2007 10:58 am
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For me it was clear from the beginning that I want to get married and have children. We dated three years before marriage and Henrik was born two years afterwards.
Why? Partly because of upbringing & culture, partly because of issues of something bigger than one person, I think. I can understand why some people don’t want to have children and I’m more worried about those people who have kids when they are not even capable to handing their own lives in any fashion.
Children are adorable! There is nothing more beautiful than to see a child developing from a ‘crybaby’ to someone who communicates with you. It is just pure bliss. And in case of our kid, he will be bi-lingual and that is something that makes this even more .. beautiful, I think.
Having children/being parent makes you to belong more to community than anything else. Friends, hobbies, jobs come and go, parenthood stays.

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Sat Dec 22, 2007 2:49 pm
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jpmuikku wrote:
For me it was clear from the beginning that I want to get married and have children. We dated three years before marriage and Henrik was born two years afterwards.
Why? Partly because of upbringing & culture, partly because of issues of something bigger than one person, I think. I can understand why some people don’t want to have children and I’m more worried about those people who have kids when they are not even capable to handing their own lives in any fashion.
Children are adorable! There is nothing more beautiful than to see a child developing from a ‘crybaby’ to someone who communicates with you. It is just pure bliss. And in case of our kid, he will be bi-lingual and that is something that makes this even more .. beautiful, I think.
Having children/being parent makes you to belong more to community than anything else. Friends, hobbies, jobs come and go, parenthood stays.
That's kind of what I was thinking...

And thanks for explaining that Worm. :)


Sat Dec 22, 2007 2:54 pm
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Silverdrone wrote:
And thanks for explaining that Worm. :)

No worries, this bloody capitalism brings just problems. As in this case, it's the fact that private sexuality is a public problem.

As I said before, to me children & marriage won't be the problem, it's just about finding the right lady and to set up a right environment. :;):

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Sat Dec 22, 2007 4:38 pm
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Worm of Na'Ruq wrote:
As I said before, to me children & marriage won't be the problem, it's just about finding the right lady and to set up a right environment. :;):


I have already done that, tough we haven't got married yet. :bounce:


Sat Dec 22, 2007 7:45 pm
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Mordante wrote:
About 4 months ago I had a vasectomy to make sure I will never have children.


That could be an act of irresponsibility. Maybe you will realize it one day.

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Sat Dec 22, 2007 7:58 pm
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Worm of Na'Ruq wrote:
Silverdrone wrote:
AnneGwish wrote:
What disgusts me the most is meeting people, usually women, who see in marriage the ultimate goal in their lives and the whole church ceremony thing. Especially the latter I find quite revolting, sexist and hypocritical.

What do you mean?

She means the simple heritage from the approx. 18th century, when the only reason of women's social behavior was to find a man, to get married and give kids to. The ideal of a direct link between reproduction and sexuality was floating all around then, simply because of the analogy with economical productivity [e.g. holding that no other sexuality is healthy except of that, which is "productive", and that non-productive one is a waste of enrgy] (hopefully I don't have to mention it were the times of the industrial revolution, and a new way of "knowledge", a new economy of social relations, etc, where direct knowledge started to become replaced with the indirect one in order to maintain authority, order, etc...).Thus, sexuality was a thing to be under strong social control. To draw back to the relation from a different perspective, women are able to get married and become mothers, but noone should have the right to oblige them to do so. However, there are ones that think within the former logic, not the latter.


Thank you, that's what I meant.

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Mon Dec 24, 2007 8:21 pm
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jpmuikku wrote:
For me it was clear from the beginning that I want to get married and have children. We dated three years before marriage and Henrik was born two years afterwards.
Why? Partly because of upbringing & culture, partly because of issues of something bigger than one person, I think. I can understand why some people don’t want to have children and I’m more worried about those people who have kids when they are not even capable to handing their own lives in any fashion.
Children are adorable! There is nothing more beautiful than to see a child developing from a ‘crybaby’ to someone who communicates with you. It is just pure bliss. And in case of our kid, he will be bi-lingual and that is something that makes this even more .. beautiful, I think.
Having children/being parent makes you to belong more to community than anything else. Friends, hobbies, jobs come and go, parenthood stays.


I have no problem when people do like childeren each his own but please know it is your opinion not a truth. You think children are adorable. I think otherwise. Also the last sentence is, how to say this polite, lets just say i disagree.

Okkultus wrote:
Mordante wrote:
About 4 months ago I had a vasectomy to make sure I will never have children.


That could be an act of irresponsibility. Maybe you will realize it one day.


Why do you think that?

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Mr. Gone: [scoff] How perceptive... did you figure that one out when I kidnapped you, or tied you up with leather straps? OF COURSE I'VE GOT A PROBLEM WITH WOMEN!


Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:29 am
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AnneGwish wrote:
Worm of Na'Ruq wrote:
Silverdrone wrote:
AnneGwish wrote:
What disgusts me the most is meeting people, usually women, who see in marriage the ultimate goal in their lives and the whole church ceremony thing. Especially the latter I find quite revolting, sexist and hypocritical.

What do you mean?

She means the simple heritage from the approx. 18th century, when the only reason of women's social behavior was to find a man, to get married and give kids to. The ideal of a direct link between reproduction and sexuality was floating all around then, simply because of the analogy with economical productivity [e.g. holding that no other sexuality is healthy except of that, which is "productive", and that non-productive one is a waste of enrgy] (hopefully I don't have to mention it were the times of the industrial revolution, and a new way of "knowledge", a new economy of social relations, etc, where direct knowledge started to become replaced with the indirect one in order to maintain authority, order, etc...).Thus, sexuality was a thing to be under strong social control. To draw back to the relation from a different perspective, women are able to get married and become mothers, but noone should have the right to oblige them to do so. However, there are ones that think within the former logic, not the latter.


Thank you, that's what I meant.

You're welcome.

Mordante wrote:
Why do you think that?

I somehow feel that I should somehow agree with Okkultus. My impression's that you are not counting with the "what if..." situation that your life would undergo some dramatic changes and you would decide that a kid would come handy... but then, I know almost nothing of you...

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Fri Dec 28, 2007 11:53 am
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Mordante wrote:
jpmuikku wrote:
Friends, hobbies, jobs come and go, parenthood stays.
Also the last sentence is, how to say this polite, lets just say i disagree.

Apparently we have different concepts for parenthood (& family) issues.

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Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:07 pm
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jpmuikku wrote:
Mordante wrote:
jpmuikku wrote:
Friends, hobbies, jobs come and go, parenthood stays.
Also the last sentence is, how to say this polite, lets just say i disagree.

Apparently we have different concepts for parenthood (& family) issues.


Now that I read it again I see I made a mistake it was not the last sentence but the before last that made me ..........
Me and my girlfriend have been together for a little over 6 years and about 2.5 years back we started to live together. We each had our own apartment before that. We never dated. Dating is an "unknown" concept for most people in the Netherlands. I met my girlfriend at a After Forever concert, we kissed, we exchanged phone numbers she worked as a volunteer at "de Boerderij" I went there when she was working. We kissed some more and we were a couple.

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Having children/being parent makes you to belong more to community than anything else.

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Julie: You, however, have a problem with women.
Mr. Gone: [scoff] How perceptive... did you figure that one out when I kidnapped you, or tied you up with leather straps? OF COURSE I'VE GOT A PROBLEM WITH WOMEN!


Sat Dec 29, 2007 12:23 am
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To claim ownership over the female. At least, that is what it was about... oh, the good ol' days!


Sat Dec 29, 2007 3:54 am
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