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Does anyone here conlang? 
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Post Does anyone here conlang?

Give an introduction to your conlang and debate how much more refined your own conlang is.

1. I have a lot of free time. 2. I like being creative. 3. I've got a working knowledge of linguistics. So yes, why not make your own language. And of course not in such a shitty way like Tolkien did it by basing the grammar on another language. Start from scratch, do not make it to resemble any language.

Vital statistics of the language I am currently working on (one is finished, just has a limited vocabulary):

- Nominative-accusative morphological alignment.
- Agglutinative
- Completely devoid of he concept of gender. Which goes to lengths that if you explicitly want to say 'mother' you say 'female parent', of course, in the language it is generally not done to specify the gender unless it is relevant. Note that there are in fact noun classes, but those have nothing to do with gender.
- Rather elaborated grammar with a lot of redundant rules, but completely regular.
- Three way alignment of verbs, verbs align in essense with the direct and indirect object, but but the conjugation class of the verb is governed by the noun class of the subject.
- Postpositioned articles which in fact have a function similar to English præpositions, so a lot of articles, which also agree with the noun class of the noun they are associated with. But tent to become more syncretic in more obscure articles.
- vowel length is characteristic and vowels are grouped into initial vowels, complete vowels and outside vowels. Words and suffixes can only have an initial or an outside vowel in their final syllable, in the case of an initial vowel it changes to a complete vowel if a suffix with a vowel is attached.
- articles have a 'sense of direction'
- every noun can be declined for not not only number (singular, plural, nullar) but also person (first, second third), except the direct object, which is declined for direct object and its person and number must be read from the agreement of the verb.
- adjectives agree with noun class and number and person of the noun they modify.

Example sentence:

'tvahaernaejar naeka kvadjühülrvan rvadjaerni ajrv kötva nakhadjirn a.'

Which grammatcally unfolds as:

- tvaharn: the 'personal' pronoun of the first noun class. The first noun class in rule (with exceptions) has nouns which refers to sentient beings or intangible objects, the pronoun of that noun class is no different. The suffixes -a and, -jar are attached to it, which denote first person and plural number. As <ae> is the complete variant of the initial <a>, thus yielding: tvahaernaejar, meaning 'we'.
- na: being the article associated with a subject of a sentence. Indefinite in default but with the suffix -ka becomes definite.
kvadjuh: The verb for 'to move', a rudimentary verb in this respect which is not required for the sentence to parse and is left out often in colloquial speech. The suffix -ul for præsent tense. -rva for conjunctive mood and -n for active voice, together with that <ü> is the compete version of initial <u> yields: kvadjühülrvan. The verb agrees with its direct object in this respect that no extra suffix is attached for a direct object of singular third person, as this is perceived as the most neutral state in the language of a noun.
-rvadjarn, meaning 'void', again a noun of the first noun class and thus a sentient being or intangible concept. The suffix -i is attached to words of the first noun class to mark their status as a direct object, giving rise to: rvadjaerni
- arjv: A particle which marks the 'sense of direction' of the article next to it, marking a direction 'towards'.
- ko: the article of the direct object in the first noun class, since <ö> is the complete representation of initial <o>, we receive kötva in the definite form.
- nakhadjirn: again, a noun of the first noun class meaning 'ignorance', it is not inflicted here as it is to be in the third person singular, which is the base form of any noun.
- a: article which denotes an instrument by which something is done or something which caused something. Not inflicted so indefinite.

So the whole sentence has a semantics of: 'We move towards the void due to ignorance.'


[tvahaernaejar naeka kvadjühülrvan] [rvadjaerni ajrv kötva] [nakhadjirn a].

Note that the parts grouped together can be freely rearranged without the sentence becoming grammatically incorrect or changing semantics because the role of each noun is largely marked by its article.


Mon Mar 24, 2008 3:30 am
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Post Re: Does anyone here conlang?

frublz wrote:
[...]
Start from scratch, do not make it to resemble any language.
[...]

Example sentence:

'tvahaernaejar naeka kvadjühülrvan rvadjaerni ajrv kötva nakhadjirn a.

Can it be true that I've seen those symbols cq. letters before or is it a coincidence? ???


Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:17 pm
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Post Re: Does anyone here conlang?

Jelle wrote:
frublz wrote:
[...]
Start from scratch, do not make it to resemble any language.
[...]

Example sentence:

'tvahaernaejar naeka kvadjühülrvan rvadjaerni ajrv kötva nakhadjirn a.

Can it be true that I've seen those symbols cq. letters before or is it a coincidence? ???
Transcription to the Latin Alphabet, dear.


Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:22 pm
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Why?


Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:02 pm
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Looks fun!

I've never tried it before, nor do I think Tolkien's method is shitty, by the way. Though his group of Elvish languages were inspired by Finnish and Latin, I don't think that takes away very much from their brilliance and own character.

In fact, they have what I like most about languages: a history or diachronic dimension and an etymological-semantic network.

I like the combination of postnominal articles and grammatical roles - they act like a sort of case particles. Perhaps slightly similar to Japanese? Though I don't know much about Japanese...

A question: if kvadjühülrvan is conjunctive, why doesn't that show up in the translation?

Finally: Jelle is right. Don't be a pussy and invent your own system of writing. If you want to show it - scan it :;):

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Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:54 am
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Yeah, like this :P :

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Books about Tolkien inspired me to do this. Later I abandoned this way of writing and used our alphabet instead. I made a language with about 500 words, jenta, and even recorded some songs in it. Haven't worked on it in years now, but here's a sample:

Finste Nū Om

Sem ādos salste, ā nekeste haum
Sem bejinla ta ola en halje
Solen ta sjilu lo doejnen, ā boenit
Londela liva, undela, ā kal...

Natalos klinas, do vijen ta as
Dājos as kilji en klinasu

Dājos tida nate jul en nak
Dājos lon kal ei akin ata jinalu


Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:24 am
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Kobaïa rules.


Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:26 pm
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Qwallath wrote:
Looks fun!

I've never tried it before, nor do I think Tolkien's method is shitty, by the way. Though his group of Elvish languages were inspired by Finnish and Latin, I don't think that takes away very much from their brilliance and own character.
I never argued that, I said it takes away from Tolkien's brilliance. Surely one can create something magnificent via plagiarism but would it be a brilliant act to do?

Qwallath wrote:
In fact, they have what I like most about languages: a history or diachronic dimension and an etymological-semantic network.
The language will eventually have a history, a religion, a culture, a people, dialects, difference between colloquial and formal speech and so forth. I have the idea in mind that this is merely the written formal language which is also spoken at formal occasions. Which is the language from two thousand years ago artificially præserved. The spoken variant will feature a simplified grammar based more on word order and irregularities.

Qwallath wrote:
I like the combination of postnominal articles and grammatical roles - they act like a sort of case particles. Perhaps slightly similar to Japanese? Though I don't know much about Japanese...
Hmm, as I think of it, could be seen as a combination of Japanese and German in a way, where in German the case is largely only visible in the article, with nouns barely inflicting for it any more. In Japanese the 'case' is marked by a particle put behind the word.

Qwallath wrote:
question: if kvadjühülrvan is conjunctive, why doesn't that show up in the translation?
In English, the first person plural præsent indicative is syncretic with its conjunctive variant. That is all.

Qwallath wrote:
Finally: Jelle is right. Don't be a pussy and invent your own system of writing. If you want to show it - scan it :;):
Well, the primary way of writing is language will be the Latin Alphabet, the abugida I am going to create for it will just be to complete the background for it.

de Tuinman en de Dood: How does that excerpt grammatically unfold?


Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:42 pm
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If the primary way of writing is the alphabet, then the example sentence given was more than a transcription. You'd think that "starting from scratch" means using your own characters (like Tolkien). That's what I did with my first conlang. Then I went to look for software and tools designed for creating my own fonts but found it too expensive. That's why the other language uses conventional letters, so I could develop it on the pc.

'Finste Nū Om' is the title of one of the songs I recorded. This is not a word-for-word translation but it will have to do:
'The Fall'

Sem ādos salste, ā nekeste haum
When it gets dark, and less warm

Sem bejinla ta ola en halje
When colours start to change

Solen ta sjilu lo doejnen, ā boenit
I feel cold on my skin, and rain

Londela liva, undela, ā kal...
Leaves fall, die, but still...

Natalos klinas, do vijen ta as
It seems sad, yet I find it pretty

Dājos as kilji en klinasu
It's a beautiful sadness

Dājos tida nate jul en nak
It's not the beginning of (the) end

Dājos lon kal ei akin ata jinalu
But rather time for a change


Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:16 pm
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I sense future myspace metal bands will look upon thine thread and stealeth for their own personal bandnameth needeths.
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Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:37 pm
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de Tuinman en de Dood wrote:
If the primary way of writing is the alphabet, then the example sentence given was more than a transcription. You'd think that "starting from scratch" means using your own characters (like Tolkien). That's what I did with my first conlang. Then I went to look for software and tools designed for creating my own fonts but found it too expensive. That's why the other language uses conventional letters, so I could develop it on the pc.

'Finste Nū Om' is the title of one of the songs I recorded. This is not a word-for-word translation but it will have to do:
'The Fall'

Sem ādos salste, ā nekeste haum
When it gets dark, and less warm

Sem bejinla ta ola en halje
When colours start to change

Solen ta sjilu lo doejnen, ā boenit
I feel cold on my skin, and rain

Londela liva, undela, ā kal...
Leaves fall, die, but still...

Natalos klinas, do vijen ta as
It seems sad, yet I find it pretty

Dājos as kilji en klinasu
It's a beautiful sadness

Dājos tida nate jul en nak
It's not the beginning of (the) end

Dājos lon kal ei akin ata jinalu
But rather time for a change
Hmm, that is not what I meant, I want an analysis of the grammar broken down in grammatical components.


Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:10 am
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I haven't created any conlangs myself, but I've frequently used them in rolepaying. One of the frequents is Volapük which is without any doubt in my mind, the perfect gnome language. A few examples can show why: Bodbegö (bread, please?), Saludikbeb (holy onion) and Tikamagot (idea).

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Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:56 am
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frublz wrote:
Hmm, that is not what I meant, I want an analysis of the grammar broken down in grammatical components.


I know what you meant, but I'm busy recording. I'll post the grammar notes once I have time to figure out how to do it in English. In the meantime the translation will have to do.


Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:58 pm
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I've been thinking about working out something like that, but I gave up really caring because of constructing the grammar. To me it's something unimportant, I in fact regard languages as something really intuitive (probably because of the nature of slovak language, which involves really loads of exceptions [3 genders plus each covers like 4-6 forms, not speaking about that each of them has some different forms, not talking about verb tenses or small details like the fact that the plural has different forms for different quantities, etc.]) and the fact that I haven't met many foreigners from non-slavic language descent that were able to absorb it completely (I, however, don't deny there might be some). And I actually often feel that the rules of grammar (both in slovak, english and partly in french, where I still feel a need for some improvement though) are instead limiting for precise description of thoughts. In different words, if I wanted to conlang, I would first need to invent a grammar (though maybe the better word would be anti-grammar) that would simply be open enough to be able to allow for new, irrational, forms of expression.

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Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:48 pm
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