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Soom : Джєбарс
http://www.doom-metal.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=12024
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Author:  endemoniada_88 [ Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:43 am ]
Post subject:  Soom : Джєбарс

Read the review here:

http://www.doom-metal.com/reviews.php?album=3490.

Author:  klamerin [ Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Soom : Джєбарс

I know i do not appreciate this genre in general but this is simply terrible garbage music, unlistenable...

Author:  baphomet [ Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Soom : Джєбарс

klamerin wrote:
garbage music


"garage music" . As long as it's a style, it's cool to sound like shit. :p

really, I think the same as you.. There's quite a gap between the review and the music I listened to...

Slight typo: Ramesses takes 2 "s" ;)

Ramesses' Misanthropic Alchemy is a tad better though, but it's something you listen to when you're 20 and pissed off, and have poor taste in music. :oldfart:

Author:  kris [ Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Soom : Джєбарс

Ramesses always sounded like they used a biscuit tin for a snare, and then placed the rest of the instruments inside the biscuit tin to record them. And they were the good half of the E.Wiz split. :D

Author:  Merchant of Doom [ Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Soom : Джєбарс

It is what it is... I don't like it personally, and I'm pretty sure they must put something weird in New Zealand's water... :laugh:

Author:  endemoniada_88 [ Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Soom : Джєбарс

Believe it or not, I am deeply unsurprised that you guys are a pretty tough sell for a Sludge/Post-Metal release :D ! Not that it falls under any of my specialist or preferred subjects, but - valid "biscuit tin" drums aside - I'm rather more inclined to agree with Matt on this one. It's for sure rough in places, definitely garagey in sound, and absolutely fucking mad in places - but I really like it as an off-piste jamming and bass-heavy workout. It's very much Krautrock for the new millennium...and I absolutely love Krautrock, old or new!
Feel free to tell me I'm wrong, but this is - for me - very much in the same unhinged/experimental bracket as Inner Dawn Foundation...

Author:  Merchant of Doom [ Wed Nov 20, 2019 3:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Soom : Джєбарс

endemoniada_88 wrote:
Feel free to tell me I'm wrong


Since you asked... you are wrong! :p

Author:  endemoniada_88 [ Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Soom : Джєбарс

I thought I probably would be... :laugh:

kris wrote:
Ramesses always sounded like they used a biscuit tin for a snare, and then placed the rest of the instruments inside the biscuit tin to record them. And they were the good half of the E.Wiz split. :D

I very much, as a rule of thumb, intensely dislike like listening to anything even vaguely Electric Wizard in origin. So I've never actually heard anything by Ramesses, and have the absolute minimum number of EW albums that I thought I could get by with as essential references. So - erm, Dopethrone...and whatever the last one was, just because I happened to review it. Is that also wrong for a supposedly Doom person...? All advice gratefully received :D

Author:  kris [ Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Soom : Джєбарс

Well it is hard to say since todays 'doom fan' has mushed Doom into two distinct genres.

Doom Subgenres as defined by Doom-Metal.com:
Ambient
Atmospheric Doom
Avantgarde Doom
Black/Doom
Death/Doom
Drone/Doom
Epic Doom
Funeral Doom
Gothic/Doom
Industrial Doom
Pagan/Ritualist
Post-Metal/Post-Core
Progressive Doom
Proto Doom
Sludge/Doom
Stoner
Stoner/Doom
Traditional Doom
Undefinable

Doom subgenres as stated by retards on facebook:

Doom (incorporating Stoner and Trad)
Funeral Doom (literally every other fucking subgenre apparently)

So it seems we on this site are wrong about everything now. :D

Or is it just like the fact that to mainstream music fans all metal heavier than Metallica is Death Metal?

I don't think this has anything to do with whatever we were discussing.

Author:  endemoniada_88 [ Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Soom : Джєбарс

On that topic, amusingly enough, this arrived today.

Image

Author:  VesicaP23 [ Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Soom : Джєбарс

endemoniada_88 wrote:
Feel free to tell me I'm wrong...


No, in this instance you are right, obviously :;): , but as Kris points out...

kris wrote:
So it seems we on this site are wrong about everything now. :D.


...something I have long suspected, alas. We never appaear to get anything right here.

Author:  mortuus [ Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Soom : Джєбарс

Dear God....8???
I really can't stand this kind of "grunge doom".... pure garbage as Klamerin said

Author:  endemoniada_88 [ Sun Dec 15, 2019 12:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Soom : Джєбарс

I may have drunk far too much vodka tonight to actually make the coherent point I currently have in the back of my fuzzy mind, but let's try anyway...

Here in the UK, following a general election in which all of the supposedly progressive, social democratic/left-wing parties were all absolutely handed their arses in a sling , you can actually lay a considerable part of the blame for that on the way lefties spend all their time excommunicating those who are not ideologically pure enough for their particular "progressiveness". And, guess what, if you take that Judean People's Popular Front approach of "if you don't like it, fuck off to the Conservatives" you end up with a membership of about six, and a Conservative landslide.

Well, I kinda see some parallels in that with this relentlessly critical approach to various Doom outings. We can pretty much agree that adopting a Doom tag, unless you already happen to be Sleep or MDB, is a guarantee of commercial suicide, right? It's just not something a normal person would do, if they have any hope of breaking big in the music world. So, given all the truly terrible autotune pop, mainstream commercial moneymakers and completely dreadful, racist and insulated Afro-American/UK-based styles of music out there, just how valid is it to utterly slag off people who are at least trying to avoid that commercialism?

Make your case: is 'grunge doom' genuinely and objectively more terrible than having to listen to Taylor Swift, Coldplay or Stormzy - all of which are, without a doubt, utterly cheapskate commercial musical garbage, or are you just taking a cheap shot based on your ring-fenced and ideologically pure "Doom cred". Because, if so, we're taking the underground scene that we're supposed to be supporting down to the level of a Monty Python sketch.

There is way (almost infinitely) worse music out in the world than this - what's your actual point, and what do you hope to achieve in dissing it?

Author:  klamerin [ Sun Dec 15, 2019 8:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Soom : Джєбарс

I strongly disagree with this one here and I hope alcohol is indeed an influence for this point=) (And not only because early Coldplay have an undeniable musical merit, but lets say this is subjective and drop it=)

If we should not criticize a band just because it's doom then what is the purpose of this site? Let's just put a banner page saying "If it's doom then it's good" and that would be enough.

I love doom but there is so much better music than bad doom, and putting a doom tag to your music does not in any way put you on a higher pedestal immune from criticism. This would be a privilege and we do not really support unearned privileges, right=)

One of the very, very worst "favours" you can do is to allow group mentality to shield from criticism. What you are suggesting would lead to watering down and the eventual ruin of a community (be it music scene, social community or whatever - well proven throughout history where every time criticism is frowned upon it leads to one road only). In addition, your argument is much more reliant on ideology. Personally I do not care if it's doom - bad music is bad music.

Author:  baphomet [ Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Soom : Джєбарс

Not being commercial is not a blank cheque; and I'd even say that most people here are not the least concerned by "mainstream music", so it's not even a benchmark or a negative counter-example against which everything "not commercial" would automatically gain any value... I don't follow you here.

And then, on this specific site, we're not here to defend one chapel against another. If people don't like what they hear, be it this or that, it's most of the time based on an actual musical content, hardly based on any kind of blind dogmatism.

Except for Merchant of Doom how doesn't like Sludge out of principle. :laugh:

Author:  Merchant of Doom [ Sun Dec 15, 2019 1:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Soom : Джєбарс

baphomet wrote:
Except for Merchant of Doom how doesn't like Sludge out of principle. :laugh:


I like sludge... I don't like stoner and trad... :;):

Author:  Merchant of Doom [ Sun Dec 15, 2019 1:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Soom : Джєбарс

endemoniada_88 wrote:
I may have drunk far too much vodka tonight to actually make the coherent point I currently have in the back of my fuzzy mind, but let's try anyway...



Let's try again... :p

Author:  baphomet [ Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Soom : Джєбарс

Merchant of Doom wrote:
baphomet wrote:
Except for Merchant of Doom how doesn't like Sludge out of principle. :laugh:


I like sludge... I don't like stoner and trad... :;):


Damn, what was I thinking, I knew that!

Author:  endemoniada_88 [ Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Soom : Джєбарс

Granted, I could have been a little more forensic and a little less emotive, but I think the broad point remains, even through the somewhat imperfect metaphor of politics.

Here in the UK, one minute you had talk of the progressive, anti-Brexit, social-liberal-democratic-leaning opposition parties forming a coalition Government of National Unity. The next, instead of broadly uniting behind their shared ideals, they're knocking lumps off each other over minor differences in method and belief. And on Friday mornng, they all woke up to discover they'd been steamrollered by a rather bland and relaxed establishment that focused on putting a simple, easy message across.

klamerin wrote:
One of the very, very worst "favours" you can do is to allow group mentality to shield from criticism.
I'm not advocating that in any way. On the contrary, I've seen some extremely erudite and thoughtful criticism discussed here, amongst posters and sometimes even the band itself. Criticism is an extraordinarily valuable tool. What I'm pointing to is the opposite end of the spectrum, which is just as corrosive in community terms, where one forgets all the commonality that entails and ends up focused, polarised, and casually dismissive of far smaller differences. Cf: recent UK politics, and the legendary obnoxiousness of the Black Metal community to each other.

baphomet wrote:
Not being commercial is not a blank cheque;
I'm not trying to say that either. Non-commercialism is no guarantee of quality, all it indicates is that somebody's willing to put their work out there for reasons other than monetary. In theory, it implies art-for-art's-sake, in practice it can be anything from vanity to lulz. I'm not espousing it as a cause celebre or anything, merely saying that it is one of the typical hallmarks of much of the underground music scene.

And I guess, really, all I was trying to say, is that by and large I far prefer to see some credit given for the fact that, whatever the result, these are generally just folk at least trying to make music for people with tastes like ours. Let's face it, most don't bother. It doesn't mean anyone has to like it, or agree whole-heartedly with any of our reviews, or that it shouldn't be criticised, or anything like that. Just my personal opinion that statements in the "no, this is just shit" and "I hate x genre" category don't really do much to meaningfully advance any of that. That's not intended as a dig against anyone in particular, it's something we're all guilty of at times, and - actually - it's not even a significant minority of the comments on threads like this, most of which do contain more of a nuanced, detailed or factual opinion.

So I certainly didn't intend to throw out some all-guns-blazing attempt at diktat or controversy; it was meant to be more of a Beerman-style musing about the way it can be easier to be quite fiercely polar and confrontational about something (anything) one has a passion for, while temporarily forgetting that, actually, you probably have far more common ground than not.

Author:  baphomet [ Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Soom : Джєбарс

Yes, it's the famous "don't say it's bad, say I don't like it" my father used to drill us in the head at each new culinary discovery. Sometimes though, he was surer than us that it was good indeed! :D

It's true that many here are saturated with underground music and for the most part it's Doom and all its subgenres that we listen to the most. Our references are so many and our appreciation scale so precise that each new album could be put on some mental weighting scales which would give an immediate subbtle score and there would be toned opinions all the time. But music is passion and passion is unreasonable...

I think that we can't always be asked to think of the people behind any new project having put their heart in it etc. and being always very diplomatic. Once in a while a strong "I hate it!" will come out and it's just a slighlty provocative heartfelt appeal, nothing backed up by any political, dogmatic vision at any rate.

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