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Earthlings 
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Post Earthlings

Guys,
I had to share we you one of the most important videos I have ever seen.
Please spread to as many people as possible and make it a wildfire of knowledge and awareness. This video is a life changing experience:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ce4DJh-L7Ys


Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:52 pm
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That's one of the reasons why I listen to doom, people made me a misanthrope.

Now, I hope I'mnot completely off-topic because I've only watched four seconds of that movie. I'm a member of Gaia, the Belgian association for animals protection, so I know how it goes.

The meat industry is babaric. Not everywhere, of course, they're always more rules inspired by the respect due to animals that are sacrified to our human hubris. I, personally, eat less and less meat for that reason and because I think that we just can do without for the benefit of everybody, of the environment and of the third world that would be much happier if it wasn't maintained in slavery by us, western industrialised countries.
I buy my dairy products directly from the farmer whom I know, I buy my eggs from a guy who grows his own chickens. The mention on the eggs packages that assert that they have been collected from chicken raised in open air is a lie, or a hyprocritical statement as you have to picture a vast hall equipped with a just couple of small doors to the outside. The majority of the chickens can't find their way to those exits and the young chickens born inside distrust the open air and stay inside because they afraid to go out. That system deliberately deceive the consumer.
Science teaches us that an animal and above a mammal is a sensitive creature with a complex nervous system that makes it feel the pain, with a vast memory capacity and with what one has to consider as a form of intelligence.
I think the main problem is the way humanism has put man in the center of the world, detaching him from nature and therefore giving him reasons to control it and prey on it. In primitive societies where man sees him as part of nature, the respect they owe to themselves depends on the respect they show to nature. We have broken the circle, so to speak.

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Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:03 pm
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I'm a vegan for many years now. It was developed from my own growing disgust of putting into my system dead, rotten animal carcasses, and the reasons only accumulate (health, longevity, morals, compassion, et cetera). It goes also to the awareness of what I'm wearing, shoes, belts, jackets and all that.
BTW, one of my twin daughters I have named Gaia, and with a good reason. As a student, I read James Lovelock's revolutionary Gaia Theory and it has completely changed my life, back to back with James Herbert's 'Portent' novel. The year was 1994-5 and I had just bought Sentenced's 'Amok' masterpiece, where they have a song called New Age Messiah. Read the lyrics. Being an environmental sciences student back then, it all made a huge impression on me. But I was still a fucking carnivore. Good riddance.


Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:17 pm
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Never listen to Sentenced... So many bands I don't know. Yesterday I read a review about Dark Tranquility... Never botherd to check them out either.

Anyway, I think I might turn completely vegan eventually. Mentally, I am ready, It is just a way of being able to give good taste to veggies and above all to be able to cook diverse and balanced meals.

Also, I must say that I am really looking forward to seeing insects landing in our plates. I tasted that and it's really good.

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Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:50 pm
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baphomet wrote:
Never listen to Sentenced... So many bands I don't know. Yesterday I read a review about Dark Tranquility... Never botherd to check them out either.

:oddity: :poke:

On the subject - I don't understand your position. Other animals eat other animals and don't give a crap. Why should humans be any different?

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Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:04 pm
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Eating insects isn't going vegan.
All you need for a good vegan meal is some quality soy sauce, some tofu, some seitan, some lentils and any variety of your favourite (?) vegetable. Basic spices you like (I like chilli peppers a lot) and you're good to go. No meal takes me more than 10-15 minutes to fix. And, it's the cheapest food you'll ever find, now that the meat and cheese prices are insane. You can always grab a dish of good humus or falafel on your way (we have those in abundance here...) and you'll have a perfect vegan dish. No need to go over the top and break any balls with this. Indeed, after watching this horrendous documentary, I can repeat the cliché: meat IS murder!


Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:04 pm
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sauron wrote:
On the subject - I don't understand your position. Other animals eat other animals and don't give a crap. Why should humans be any different?


It's not what humans eat; it's how they treat and how they kill the animals prior to consuming them.
Watch the film, otherwise, I cannot help you...

Oh, and humans don't just eat animals; they exploit them for recreation, economic gains, they wear them and experiment on them. Animals are more or less the cannon fodder for any debasement, perversion, immorality and monstrosity of man, more or less...


Last edited by wyrd on Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:07 pm
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wyrd wrote:
Eating insects isn't going vegan.


Technically, you are right. But insects, although beautiful are not the more complex of all animal organisms. Their nervous system is even less developed that the fishes' and there are billions of them on the surface of the earth. This is the solution to provide enough proteine to everybody. I must say I don't feel carnivore/predatory when I eat a fly.

To answer Sauron, this is the privilege of man and his grandeur to be able to restrain himself.

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Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:13 pm
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According to the film, fish have a highly developed nervous system, some are superior at that in many ways than humans, so lessening their nervous system in terms of feeling pain and such isn't something I'd do.
And going vegan is exactly the answer to the (non existent) world hunger for generations to come. One acre (we call it dunam) of soy beans (put instead any other plant like corn, wheat, et cetera) is either suitable for feeding a cow so it will gain one kilogram in body mass, or feeding several thousands of human on that very same amount of grains. Where's the problem with providing enough proteins with choosing the latter option in stead of the former?


Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:21 pm
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wyrd wrote:
Oh, and humans don't just eat animals; they exploit them for recreation, economic gains, they wear them and experiment on them. Animals are more or less the cannon fodder for any debasement, perversion, immorality and monstrosity of man, more or less...

Never seen cat playing with mouse, did you?

Of course, animals don't use other animals for research. But that's just because they don't do research (-;
As for "immorality" - there's no freaking "morality" in animal world.
Please, don't name your kids Gaia - go feed them to wild animals instead. That'd be pro-animal at it's best, the moral of the jungle.

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Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:34 pm
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Lab-grown meat is what I hope for the future. Just the tissue, not real animals. I'm pretty sure we could make it better than the real thing.

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Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:38 pm
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~Empathy~ wrote:
Lab-grown meat is what I hope for the future. Just the tissue, not real animals. I'm pretty sure we could make it better than the real thing.

Now this is unnatural d-:

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Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:38 pm
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The video is unavailable in my country.

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Sat Jun 15, 2013 5:03 pm
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~Empathy~ wrote:
Lab-grown meat is what I hope for the future. Just the tissue, not real animals. I'm pretty sure we could make it better than the real thing.


you seriously hope that? and a world à la THX... please, I'm happy I'll be dead by then.

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Sat Jun 15, 2013 5:10 pm
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wyrd wrote:
According to the film, fish have a highly developed nervous system, some are superior at that in many ways than humans, so lessening their nervous system in terms of feeling pain and such isn't something I'd do.
And going vegan is exactly the answer to the (non existent) world hunger for generations to come. One acre (we call it dunam) of soy beans (put instead any other plant like corn, wheat, et cetera) is either suitable for feeding a cow so it will gain one kilogram in body mass, or feeding several thousands of human on that very same amount of grains. Where's the problem with providing enough proteins with choosing the latter option in stead of the former?


yes, I know of this comparison. And I follow you but you have to count with weather issues. the productivity of naturally-grown fields is irregular. That and the fact that all vegetables able to provide the same amount of proteines than meat aren't adapted to all ground and climate. On the other hand, Insects are super resistant, they can be farmed too and their reproduction rate is very high.

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Sat Jun 15, 2013 5:16 pm
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sauron wrote:
[
Please, don't name your kids Gaia - go feed them to wild animals instead. That'd be pro-animal at it's best, the moral of the jungle.


I'm sure you know this is perfectly stupid...

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Sat Jun 15, 2013 5:18 pm
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baphomet wrote:
I'm sure you know this is perfectly stupid...

Not eating any meat at all doesn't sound very smart to me either, sorry.

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Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:41 pm
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sauron wrote:
baphomet wrote:
I'm sure you know this is perfectly stupid...

Not eating any meat at all doesn't sound very smart to me either, sorry.


I don't think any vegan ever tried to convince anyone. Your arguments are rather unsmart that are callling upon tradition and a form of atavism. I personally go on eating meat, but very few. Anyway, if eating meat isn't a legal crime, it is for me a form of institutionalized predation that could be at least tempered; the way we, industrialised countries consume it is a real serious environmental problem.

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Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:36 am
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wyrd wrote:
And going vegan is exactly the answer to the (non existent) world hunger for generations to come. One acre (we call it dunam) of soy beans (put instead any other plant like corn, wheat, et cetera) is either suitable for feeding a cow so it will gain one kilogram in body mass, or feeding several thousands of human on that very same amount of grains. Where's the problem with providing enough proteins with choosing the latter option in stead of the former?

Because there are already unsustainably large numbers of people overpopulating marginally suitable - at best - parts of the world. History suggests that feeding them more efficiently will simply lead to a population rise to take up the surplus, and an exponential demand for all other resources in order to then increase net standard of living to first-world equivalence.
More harm than good from the Gaia-friendly perspective, I would have thought. Not to mention pretty boring, when everything that isn't houses is fields of soy beans...

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Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:44 am
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Yeah, globalization is a fundamental issue when people dream of a fantasisied universel standard of living – which for most would be the American way of life. The solution is in moderation of all aspects of life. As Saint Juste said some time before the French revolution: "la base du contrat social repose sur une équitable modération". To profit less so that everybody can profit. Africa for one should first stop to look towards the north and go back to a form of autonomy (to stop cultivating and draining the ground to the benefit of western countries and to develop a form of farming that is self-sustainable, not depending of outside inputs… And in case of exeeding productions to be able to transform the raw material without resorting to uneven competition.. etc.. programs exist that are realistic, but as one say, you have to change the paradigm).

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Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:10 am
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