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Is it time for the US to split? 
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Post Is it time for the US to split?

Is it time for the US to split into 2 or more countries? It doesn't appear to be working as one, and hasn't done for some time.

Geographically the major east coast and west coast democratic states seem to have the same social and political aspirations as to how they want their country run. Travelling between them would require the cooperation of the republican country inbetween, but no one said they couldn't remain friends.

It's hard to see how they can go forward as one nation. If Trump wins again, and I suspect he will, it will have the same outcome on the country as if Biden wins, and he might. Either way they will end up tearing each other apart. I think we are witnessing the decline and fall of an empire.

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Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:34 am
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What we are seeing in the US and in the UK, and which I suspect will spread through Europe, is a new social/political movement demanding a different system and it being backed by many in the media and by many politicians. The revolution is being driven predominately by Millennials and generation Z, and it is incompatible with the established capitalist system signalling tears at bedtime.

The change they seek they are being told is Socialism, but it isn’t because Socialism is as much an economic system as it is a social one, and fundamentally Socialism is built on human rights not civil rights. The new system being sought is actually a form of Identity politics driven Liberalism relying on a soft capitalist economic system. In my opinion this can only end one of 5 ways,

The 2 systems go their different ways, peacefully
The 2 systems go their different ways, violently
One system capitulates to the other peacefully and quietly sulks
One system capitulates to the other violently and forms an underground resistance
The 2 systems compromise and live together happily ever after in a hybrid solution

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Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:21 am
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The reason why I think this is a serious revolutionary movement is because of the scale of it. We are not talking about a few thousand Civil Rights activists, a few thousand looters, a few thousand revolutionists. We are talking about at least a generation if not two of people that have politicians that claim to represent them and they vote for, and a significant section of the media that claim to support them. We are talking about half the people of the countries involved. Not only that, but it is who these people are, they are predominately Millennials, they are angry and they feel they have little to lose.

They have been handed down goals and aspirations from their parents that are no longer achievable and they feel failures. The capitalist system has left them in such a place that they may never afford a home, have to live pay check to pay check, have little job security or worker rights, and who resented us, the Boomer Generation, for letting this happen.

They have turned their backs on their parents values, morality and concepts of relationships and family, and we have responded by calling them the lost generation. They have turned their backs on capitalism as many graduates will never get a job, many expect to work only part-time and get minimum wage zero hour contracts, many expect to slide into poverty or the underclass, many are naive, live on social media, and are easily manipulated. They have been told that a form of Identity politics Liberalism with no defined economic infrastructure will save them, and they believe it.

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Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:55 am
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How did we get here?

It is partly to do with the nature of capitalism itself, which is to eat itself. Bigger fish eat littler fish, and the bigger fish gets eaten by an even bigger one until you end up with a few enormous fishes and millions of tiny fish that are not worth eating. Money, which is power, flows upwards and it doesn’t flow linearly. The poor in 1st world countries get richer at the expense of the poorer in 3rd world countries, and like a slinky spring despite one generation getting better off, future generations fall back to become poorer than their parents. Gradually the rich get richer and poor get poorer and middle class slip into working class and working class slip into underclass.

Pre-Boomer generations like my parents and the generation before them fought the factory owning middle class merchants for living wages and decent working conditions, so that people like me of the Boomer generation, would reap the benefits they had won, and build on them to ensure our children would have a better future. The capitalist control system that my parents, grandparents and great grandparents experienced was draconian, Victorian and quite brutal, but this was replaced with the almost self-policing control system of consumerism.

My generation banked the money by buying houses, forcing the prices up until our children couldn't afford them anymore, keeping up with the Jones, and buying so much crap we had to buy bigger houses to put it in. My generation stopped fighting because we were comfortable and now, thanks to consumerism , we had stuff to lose. Over the years we let working conditions slip away, wages decline, we turned a blind eye to detrimental changes to hiring and firing practices, promotion processes, erosion of pensions, guaranteed working hours. In 80s UK we had Prime Minister called Thatcher, as who in a single stroke of genius introduced home ownership, selling off the council houses, and in doing so enslaved the entire working class with mortgages. Once you had a mortgage you couldn't afford to go on strike and as if to demonstrate this she destroyed the mining community and the whole country watched silently in fear as they saw the banks evict miners from their homes, thinking there by the grace of god.... In some ways you can’t blame the capitalist system for where we are. That would be like blaming a lion for eating you. It is a system run by predators and what do you expect from predators, tuck me in Sergeant Major and kiss me goodnight? My generation was responsible for making sure the next had a future regardless of the system.

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Mon Jun 08, 2020 11:17 am
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Post Re: Is it time for the US to split?

Beerman wrote:
In 80s UK we had Prime Minister called Thatcher, as who in a single stroke of genius introduced home ownership, selling off the council houses, and in doing so enslaved the entire working class with mortgages.


Well, it was a stroke of genius indeed... were you in Bristol pulling down the statue too?

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Mon Jun 08, 2020 1:26 pm
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Well, no one got hurt, no shops got looted, no one lost their livelihood, and most importantly, no pubs were damaged, and the youngsters all had a good time, so all's well that ends well. A few things did annoy me though.

No one appeared to be bothered about the statue before the demonstration. It had been knocking around Bristol for some time, there were no debates about it, no petitions raised to have it removed that I'm aware of. Indeed, I suspect most never realised it was of Edward Colston, or what Colston had been up to in the West Indies hundreds of years ago.

No one asked me if I wanted it taken down. I would have probably said yes, but it would have been nice to have been asked. I'm not sure who gave the protesters the right to decide for me.

After the event the media was full of 'Colston the Slave Trader', justifying the act. Where were the media campaigns to have the statue removed before the event?

The Major of Bristol Marvin Rees came out in support of the protesters, when he was fully aware the statue was there, and said and did nothing about it until it was pulled down. Now he's a self-proclaimed hero of the people. He's even claimimg his Jamacan heriatage proves he's a decendent of slaves and makes him so much more virtuous.

Looking at the news of the rioting in the US, the destruction and the violence, I feel quite happy to be living in England's Mild, Mild West, especially in Bristol, home of Blackbeard. Now surely no one has anything bad to say about Blackbeard?


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Mon Jun 08, 2020 4:13 pm
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Post Re: Is it time for the US to split?

Beerman wrote:
Now surely no one has anything bad to say about Blackbeard?


No... :D

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Mon Jun 08, 2020 4:36 pm
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The statue of Arnold Schwarzenegger was vandalized during millennial rage riot in Columbus. They didn't say why, but clearly it's because of his part in the enslavement of the human race when he was a Terminator. The thing is, since he came back from the future he has reformed and has spent his time inspiring youngsters in bodybuilding, making amends for his past sins. Do we not believe in redemption?

Image

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Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:02 pm
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Things are moving along in the good ol' USA. Could be a big bust up at the Trump rally in Oklahoma. It could be the thing that splits them up if guns are used. I shall get some beers in.

If the resigning, sacked and defund police in the blue states are looking for somewhere to go they could always be employed by the governors of surrounding red states and put on boarder duty.

Don't know about flags though. Who gets the Stars and Stripes? I thought Trump would go for the confederate flag as the blue states seem to hate the people of the south so much, but then I saw him hugging the Stars and Stripes so I don't think he would. Maybe if the red states go for the Stars and Stripes and the blue states go for the Confederacy flag that would work.

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Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:58 am
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Looks like the young un's want to tear down Mount Rushmore. Wow! What have Deep Purple ever done to them?





Maybe they are decendents of slave traders?

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Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:14 am
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I see the Oklahoma rally went without a bang. Next big event is will be next week in Portland. Will they kick the Feds out? Will Trump send in more? Gun sales are through the roof.



It's going to get really interesting when the jobs go and the mass evictions start. Murder rates are up, but at least that has scared the robbers off as general crime is down. Perhaps that's the way forward in crime prevention; get the murder rate up.

I suspect the democrats who are supporting the radical liberal revolution before the election will try and dump them once they get in power, but I think it's gone too far for that, especially as Biden intends to appoint a radical liberal black woman as vice president, who will in effect become president when they put Biden into an old people's home.


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Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:01 pm
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Surely the solution to this impasse of letting US fed troops in vs. not letting US fed troops into states is obvious, especially in Portland. If Washington, Oregon and California create their own local federal force, they could give the protesters in Portland uniforms and guns and make them their federal troops. Sorted.


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Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:04 am
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Post Re: Is it time for the US to split?

Picture says it all really:

Image

One of them is out of focus and it's not Kamala Harris in the background. How are the 50% of conservative Americans going to react if she beats Donald? I'm not sure the 50% of liberal Americans can solve the problems the US has on their own and I’m pretty sure the 50% conservative Americans are not going to be happy to help.

The big liberal cities have taken on the US homeless problem only to have homeless flock to their cities because they are not wanted elsewhere, and they are overwhelmed. Homelessness is a symptom of a range of illnesses as well as what happens to normal people when their money dries up in a dog eat dog economic system; and it's not long before they become ill as well. What has happened to these liberal cities is the mentally ill, alcoholics and drug users have converge on them, because they are tolerated, fed and watered. They have become visible and quite frankly an eyesore. They have destroyed the environment they call their new home, frightened the locals, and brought the crime, gang violence and prostitution that follows drug addicts. The homeless were there before the liberal cities took them in; they were just out of sight.

Then there’s the problem with household debt, which has made many Americans one pay check away from bankruptcy and joining the homeless.

Then there’s the siphoning off of wealth by the ultra rich that control the money and hence the society through the US Federal Bank and the Stock Market casino.

Then there’s the part time employment, multiple jobs, zero hour contracts that the employment figures hide, along with the unhappiness this brings.

Then there’s the growing number of slums and the sociopathic environments they create, and an ever growing underclass.

Then there are the drugs, 70,000 deaths per year,

Then there’s illegal immigration, illegal immigrant rights, the divisive psychology of the wall, and deportation policy.

Then there’s the decline of free speech and the rise of Identityism of the radical liberal minority, as they label racist, sexist, homophobic and xenophobic anyone that disagrees with them, even their more moderate liberals.

Then there are the institutions and businesses that support Identityism by punishing people that don’t comply with the radical liberals.

Then there’s the US government debt that’s just gone up 7 Trillion and threatens to destroy money, or at least any currency dependent on the dollar.

Then there’s the huge military budget, paid for by their society.

Then there’s foreign policy. The conservative Americans hate China and the liberal Americans hate Russia. They can’t have a war with both, at least not at the same time.

Then there’s the abolition of guns to solve all the killings on the streets, ironically mainly in liberal cities. The champion of right to carry arms, the National Rifle Association, is for the first time under serious attack and threat of disbandment.

Then there are the Police, labelled saints by some and sinners by others; to defund and replace them with guardian angels, or keep the boys in blue with their guns and sunglasses.

Then there’s the ghost of Christmas past, slavery and 60s racial segregation which threatens to turn anti-racist protests into a power move by Black Supremacists which is surely to be met with an equal and opposite reaction by other races as they are discriminated against.

Then there’s the liberal hatred of all things confederate, a war that has never been forgiven or forgotten by both sides and kind of defines the polarisation of the US today.

Then there’s cancel culture and who knows what else will follow.

Then there’s the Coronavirus, hastening the collapse of the US economy which has been quietly collapsing for some time, hidden by statistics. There’s the collapse of the housing market, the entertainment industry, and the US as a world economic superpower. Maybe even the Stock Market casino will collapse, although the gamblers can bet on loses as well as wins, so the rich will probably be ok, only the stocks and shares will collapse. That’s a lot of collapse.

Under Donald, the liberals were left to sort it out a lot of these problems for themselves and the conservative states have got away with not paying much, and from their view, why should they; the problem is now on the liberal’s doorstep. Under Kamala, assuming she doesn’t add more zeros to the money supply and calls it debt, Federal funds will be raised from republican states through taxes, and that’s not going to go down well. Under Kamala a lot of these problems will be resolved by presidential order and force whether the conservatives like it or not.

Quite looking forward to the November elections. I hope people don’t think I’m sticking my nose into other countries affairs, but what happens over there, is going to impact over here. Americans can’t claim to be the leaders of the free world, and then complain when countries that have to follow them wonder what’s happening over there.

I do hope they stop adding zeros to the world’s dollar supply and calling it debt though. I don’t want my pint of beer to cost a pony, monkey, or grand next year, that would be well naughty.

You can bump and grind, it is good for your mind. You can twist and shout, let it all hang out, but you won't fool the children of the revolution


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Thu Aug 13, 2020 2:53 pm
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Two videos, be sure to watch them both. How can anyone co-exist with this? All blows are cowardly, from behind, or when they're not looking. They are like a pack of hyenas. One-on-One and they’d shit themselves.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/portland-ass ... ld-country

I think what is so disturbing about these scenes is, are we looking at our brave new world? Is this how it is going to be in the future? That woman who got beaten to the ground could have been your mother or wife, that young lad who stopped to help someone could have been someone's son or husband. It's like a glimpse of the violence of the underclass, leaving the slums, and happening where you live.

This on the other hand is hilarious

Some random guy who thinks he has the authority and moral rightious to shout at staff and passengers on the London Underground about how disgusted he was with them for not wearing face masks like self-appointed defender of the people and the lawman, having it explained to him that he is not. The train staff may not be able to retaliate or speak their mind for fear of losing their job, but he made the mistake of having a go at a passer-by, who turned round, said "don't fucking start on me", and thumped him one. Face-to-Face, no sucker punch. Makes you proud to be British. :D

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus- ... w-12052744

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Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:57 pm
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Talking of hilarious.... DNC 2020, Reality TV for Oligarchs




Sums up my views on politics and politicians, they're all the same. Their job is to make sure nothing changes.

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Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:40 am
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Post Re: Is it time for the US to split?

How could the south split from the north?

One way is by following the Scotland/UK model. If you think of the south as being like Scotland and the UK like the north; the south (1) gets granted devolution, (2) gets its own congress with southern state rights, (3) gets a grant from the north so that the north and south have roughly the same living standards, (4) receives a reduced grant in stages until the south pays for itself, and finally (5) declares independence with the north’s blessing. What could possibly go wrong?

To get some idea what could go wrong I think you need to look at the south’s motives to leave the union and the north’s motives to keep the union together, and what better way to do that than to learn lessons from history. remembering of course that;

1. History is a story weaved around events, written by the victors.

2. It portrays the winner as the hero, saviour, morally just, and rightful owner to whatever he or she has stolen, and the loser as a villain suppressing his or her people, who had been secretly begging the victor to liberate them.

3. If you tell a story often enough and long enough, people will accept it as fact, especially if it is institutionalised by the victors.

4. Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls present, controls the past.

Let's look at the motives behind the north wanting to keep the union together and the south wanting to leave the 1st time, that led to the American Civil War.

Why the north wanted the south

1. The rich in the north would be richer and more powerful with the south under their control.

2. The north and south economies combined would be the largest economy in the world, whereas separately they would not, and could end up being competitors.

3. The south was becoming a military threat to the north, and the north feared that one day the south might become strong enough to challenge them.

To get the people of the north behind keeping the union, those in power encouraged union nationalism rather than northern nationalism, welcoming immigrants as US citizens and calling on them to join the condemnation of the south. The north portrayed the south as traitors and rebels, that if not dealt with would destroy the country for everyone.

The north also strategically championed the abolitionist cause, even though they had welcomed the wealth generated from slavery as part of a US economy since slavery was introduced into the US. Indeed, the US federal government had taxed it heavily to fund the industries in the north. When Lincoln said “all men are created equal” he meant within their own races. He didn’t believe slavery was morally wrong, or that ‘blacks’ should have the same civil rights as ‘whites’, but rather said, he’d free all the slaves, or none, if the if that meant keeping the union together. Had he not been assassinated, his plan was to repatriate the slaves back to Africa.

I'm not having a go at the north, this was exactly how the UK was behaving, not using slaves directly, but buying them in Africa and transporting them to the US for sale. This continued even after slavery was abolished in the UK, which, like many states in the north, was irrelevant as slaves were not used there.

Moving to today

The rich in the north and south still exist, but the real money and power today rests with a small group of ultra rich people whose influence is global and the US economy expressed as GDP/Debt is largely a facade behind which they hide their wealth extraction operation.

Splitting a homogeneous US economy into north and south economies might not matter to the ultra rich if the US GDP/Debt was split between them and they could continue to extract wealth from both countries on the same scale. On the other hand, having one big economy better hides what they are doing, and they may not like being exposed.

As for war, the ultra rich and the US military industrial complex might prefer one as there would be profit to be made, so they might object to a peaceful transition.

As for slavery, that may not exist anymore, but in its place are the ultra poor, slums, and underclass morality. This exists in north and south, just as slavery did. I’m sure the ultra rich are not bothered about this, especially as they helped create the situation. It’s not going to be an issue if it comes to splitting the country; north and south will have to tackle the growing poverty and the growing underclass in their own way.

As for union nationalism, I think this is probably the biggest issue with letting the south go. It has built up over the years for so long, and reinforced with flags, by the media, and in politics, that a lot of the people in the north would want to hold onto the south even though they couldn’t really tell you why.



Union black soldiers fought in segregated units under white officers.

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Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:55 am
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Why the south wanted to go

1. The Rich in the south saw the rich in the north as a threat to their wealth and powerbase.

2. Southern states had a different way of life and a different outlook on life. They had their own social structure and moral code that made it feel like a different country to the north. Southern society remained fairly self-contained with few immigrants workers taking up citizenship, as opposed to the north which had embraced immigration, mainly from Europe. All this gave rise to southern nationalism that rejected the USA.

3. Southern states felt they were being used by the north, robbed, and disrespected. Federal government laws were increasingly becoming detrimental to the south’s economy and were seen by the south as the north riding roughshod over the southern State Rights. Certain laws were perceived to be aimed specifically at the south and were perceived at best as interference and at worse as economic attacks on the south to keep it under the control of the north. This led to resentment and anger in the south towards the north, especially when it came to increased taxation and tariffs imposed on imported goods essential to the south’s economy. Prior to the Civil War, the south was paying 75% of all US tax.

4. Southern states felt they were being held back by the north. There was an act passed that would stop the south taking their slaves with them to develop the new territories out west. Big business in the south didn’t have a business model that wasn’t slave based, so this was seen as the rich in the north claiming the new territories for themselves and their factories, and denying the rich in the south from exploiting them with their plantations.

5. The opportunity for small town mayors to become state politicians, minor politicians becoming members of a southern congress, even president of a new country, would have driven the politics because it always does. Ambition, power, fame and fortune drive politicians because it always has.

When the south finally declared independence, the splitting of federal assets on southern territory became a big issue. In fact it sparked the first shots that started the civil war. The south felt they had paid for the forts and the equipment on their land with their taxes, and they belonged to them. Needless to say the north disagreed and when the south attacked a US fort, the north immediately deployed their troops, and so began a 4 year civil war.

So what applies today?

Today, the power is with the ultra rich that own the financial institutions and the multinationals. The rich today, be they in the north or south, just aren’t rich enough to play a major role in secession.

Southern nationalism is probably the biggest driver to leave. Despite attempts by the north to suppress it, it has never gone away. Attempts to ban the southern flag and destroy its statues and attack it through the media and politics have not stopped what is essential a grass roots kinship.

I don’t know if federal influence in southern states is regarded as discriminatory as it once was. The southern culture is for small government and some will see any federal intervention as intrusion. As for southern state rights, I have no idea if this is still an issue.

The south’s position on any federal assets on its territory probably hasn’t changed and the south would probably want US military units returning to base in southern states to become southern military units, even if that meant some personal needed to be transferred back home up north. This could be today’s new flash point just as it was back in 1861.

Should the Democrats win the November 2020 election, and Donald Trump contest the result and refuse to concede defeat until Republican objections are resolved, the Democrats have threatened to deploy the military to remove him from office and I assume place him under arrest. This could divide the military along the lines of north and south, or red and blue states, with units loyal to the President resisting units loyal to the Democrats.

Should Donald Trump get re-elected, the Democrats have said they would refuse to concede defeat, and they would deploy an army of lawyers against him rather than military, but there is going to be tension, with a lot of fingers on triggers on both sides, including in the military.


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Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:13 am
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Post Re: Is it time for the US to split?

New Civil War

One of the many problems the US has is within each state there is a sizable minority of the other side, so a split by state is not going to work. If they did split the US that way, the current cold civil war would continue and maybe turn into a hot one. Not like the good old days where each side wearing different coloured uniforms would face off against each other in a firing line of muskets about 50 yards apart, but where everyone carries a gun in their pocket with their finger on the safety in case that stranger walking towards them twitches as they get closer.

If the Democrats win the election

I have no doubt that having served their purpose, the Democrats will drop the ‘radical left’; although they don’t really have a name; you can’t call them Millennial Socialists as they are not Socialists. You can’t call them Radical Liberals or Extreme Liberals as they restrict personal freedoms. You can’t call them Social Liberals as they have no economic plans from transformation to a soft capitalist economy. The only descriptor that seems to capture what they are is a Woke form of Identityism. I digress.

I suspect the plan is the VP will become the P, assuming Biden makes it to November 2020, and the problem will be made to go away through the traditional use of suppression, and ex. Police Chief Kamala Harris is the woman for the job. But I’m not sure that’s going to work this time round.

The US capitalist system has all but been destroyed by the ultra rich, the place is falling apart. It’s not even clear who is running the institutions any more. They were once under the control of the Democrats, now they either under the control of the ultra rich predator class who are controlling the politicians, or these institutions may be running themselves as state-less, self-aware creatures, controlled by their directors, much along the lines of how some regard multinational corporations running themselves as living entities, controlled by their CEOs. Who knows; maybe it’s a combination of the two, or three; does it really matter? If the Military and CIA are running themselves like the financial institutions then the organisational map of the brave new world looks very different to the traditional map showing bottom-up election of top-down government.

I think the point is, the millennial generation in particular have been trashed by the system, they have nothing to look forward to but more of the same, and many at the bottom of the heap feel they have nothing to lose. They see the social decay, their shit future and they are fighting it. The underclass who traditionally have shot each other over issues of disrespect, drugs and money, now have a cause to fight for and give their often short lives meaning, and they make powerful guerrilla warfare fighters.

The genie is out of the bottle, and all it would have taken to prevent this was for those who have taken the money, not to have taken it all. It’s a bit like the Kings, Queens and Barons of feudal days, working their subjects to death without leaving them enough to eat to keep the system going. But that’s the nature of greed, it’s greedy.

If the Republicans win

There’s no question the violence will be suppressed by force, the president has said as much. But suppression hasn’t worked in Afghanistan, Libya or Iraq as the violence against what are seen as occupying forces continues. It hasn’t worked in the middle-east. Keeping a lid on it only works for so long as the pressure builds unseen. The more suppression doesn’t work, the more extreme the suppression has to become, which makes the resistance greater, until it explodes.

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Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:47 am
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Post Re: Is it time for the US to split?

The first attempted state coup has been thwarted in Michigan. Not much of an attempt really; kidnap the governor and occupy the State Capitol Building with 200 militiamen. I assume they hoped that once barricaded in there, the general public would rise up to join them; not much of a plan, but as I’m sure as they say out there in militia land, practice makes perfect.




Record High Number Of Americans Think Political Violence Is Justified

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Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:51 pm
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